back to basics?

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8 years 8 months ago #38613 by maggiemac
back to basics? was created by maggiemac
I know this is far from a new topic but feel it is always worth revisiting if help is needed. So, Aoife is now 6 months old, stands around 27" at the shoulder and well muscled and heavy boned,still very much my baby. Firstly I have to admit to arthritis in my right shoulder which isnt helping matters, on her dogmatic halter she is subdued for the start of the walk but can become resentful after awhile and will start jumping and snapping at me, I know its the halter, I know and understand her very well, I spend all my time with her, she sleeps at the foot of the bed, and both time and energy is lavished on her. She is walked and allowed lots of free running time(without a halter)and her recall is wonderful. She is also a funny and extremely loving member of my family...that is me and my 3 x 18year old jack russell terriers. However I am not the kind of dog owner that can or will use any kind of "punishment" to acquire a calm dog. But I need to know how to stop this behavior before it spoils the relationship.
I am pack leader. I am the boss of my dogs, as I write she is asleep with her head over my shoulder, she is respectful of me and the jacks, when we meet people and or dogs when we are out and about she immediately drops to the floor , no child or dog has ever felt threatened by her.
I know the breed is often referred to as "rambunctious" it is a fair description isnt it?
My question is , and I truly value the answers "what is the best way to proceed with her? I need to ensure she cant get the "top-side" of me, and I dont want to spend a fortune on more halters and harness that are at the end of the day just masking these outbursts.So help please from all you experienced Dh owners.

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8 years 8 months ago #38614 by BethC
Replied by BethC on topic Re: back to basics?
Hi - this might not help at all, and I'm no way an experienced DH owner. However, my dog training instructor told us the most important command to teach is "settle"....basically all paws on the floor, calm and quiet. Her advice is that as soon as there is "unsettled" behaviour stop the walk, stand on the lead, cross your arms and look up and over your dog's head. As soon as all paws are on the floor and there is no noise give an ear rub and a treat and carry on. Have the patience to stop every time they play up....at the moment you probably give her loads of attention when she plays up, even if it's telling her to stop it! Messing about = no attention at all from mum! It worked for us!! We also noticed a big calming down from about 8 mths old to now (he is now 13 mths old). He can still go mad, but also knows when he's over stepped the mark!

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8 years 8 months ago #38615 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: back to basics?
I will try this, I have found that when I`m eating and she`s watching me I dont give her any tidbits until she lies down she understood this very quickly, so maybe it will work on her outbursts. Thank you for taking the time to answer, much appreciated.

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8 years 8 months ago #38618 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: back to basics?
You know what, she is a deerhound puppy! They are very active, bouncy and wild compared to the adults. And, they do mature much later than small breed dogs- I would say, when about 2-3 years old they finally come out of the puppy stage. I have raised only 6 deerhounds so far, but always experienced this- owning a giant breed dog comes with giant puppies....My current youngest(14mths) still goes bonkers with joy every so often and for her the " watch me" worked the best - she will run up to everyone because she LOVES everyone- if she was a regular seized pup basically no one would mind. Do, I personally try to allow them as much activity/outbursts as possible as they become the calm dogs the are known for soon enough. And the puppy wildness is for sure very typical for tem. I do work with other dogs as a Tellington Ttouch practitioner and I also do work at the SPCA- do not like te idea of " boss/pack leader" and so on at all, usually lots of tough talk (and unfortunately often some rather cruel actions)and little understanding by those who promote this ( on tv e.g.).
Also, yes, the attention withdrawel is a good one (hands also have to beout of reach for them) - do this when mine jump up,on te gate when I come home- works better than any words.
Have fun with your pup, she sounds great


Verena

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8 years 8 months ago #38619 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: back to basics?
Thanks Verena, yes she is wonderful and I adore her. I expected excitement, and bouncing and wildness and having trained ponies who had never been handled or even close to humans (coming straight off the heather)I reckoned she would be a doddle! Lol!
We have just been to the local and very busy garden centre to buy her treats and chews, she has welcomed all the attention she got and behaved impeccably. I think with hindsight and because she really is well behaved most of the time I`m perhaps expecting too much too soon. As for pack leader? I bred my jack russells,there were originally 6, 5 boys and 1 girl, all the people who were desperate to own one worked and I would not part with a jack to see it shut in the house all day, so I kept the lot. 18 years on I am down to 3 boys, but if I hadnt affirmed my seniority and tough love they would not have had the lovely life they`ve had, they would have killed each other.Having said that I learn everyday that I`ve got alot to learn...I havent come across this term you use "watch me" is there some link I can follow to read up on it?Thanks for all your help its very much appreciated.

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8 years 7 months ago #38622 by WendyS
Replied by WendyS on topic Re: back to basics?
I have 3 deerhound bitches. The youngest is two and a half now (still very much a youngster) and still jumps around if she considers that she has been on the lead long enough. From what you say Aoife is a very well behaved wee thing. Please don't think that she is nearly grown up at 6 months, size doesn't matter, she is still a baby all be it a big one.
Your experience with JRs will not have prepared you for a DH. JRs are pretty mature at 8 months and certainly adult at a year.
Also DHs have been bred in the past to be independent thinkers, they need to be if hunting deer, so you will not get the instant obedience you have probably had with your previous dogs. They think first and if it suites they will do as you ask. It is not that they do not know what is wanted of them and they can be very stubborn.
For all their size they are very sensitive beings and although they need to know that certain types of behaviour is not acceptable, in general I don't think you will have much success with a "tough love" approach. Work WITH the deerhound character and above all enjoy her.
One of the best insights into DHs and their character is Kay Barrett's book. Living with deerhounds. It is a brilliant book. Loads of information and very practical, down to earth advice.
I have had several breeds in the past but the deerhound character is totally unique.
Best of luck and don't expect too much.
Wendy
;) ;)
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8 years 7 months ago #38623 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: back to basics?
Thanks Wendy, as I posted previously I reckon I probably was expecting too much too soon, when your pup is near perfect you think she`s more switched on than she really is. I dont judge her by the jr`s they are way different, nasty snappy old grumps....maybe a bit like me. for me it was wondering should I have been more bossy with her, or should I even be asking her not to jump and bite at 6 months, the answer lies more in how to handle what was happening , and all I could do was see if this was normal for the breed, as it turns out it is(I instantly felt less defeated). I`ll see if I can get a copy of the book you have recommended. I have had several rescue dogs (rotties and labs) who came with many,many problems all of which were either overcome or at least managed to the end of their days, my worry was that not addressing Aiofe`s outbursts would cause her to think she could bite and bump me as she would another DH. With a rottie aggression is met with me standing over the dog and lifting its front paws off the ground, it works immediately, its not fighting fire with fire, its just a way of showing who is top dog. I`m greatful that you and others have insisted that DH`s are such a different breed that their handling has to be approached in a different way, it has made my life much more interesting, I`m a willing student on this subject and happy to listen to all advice, many thanks ,kind regards, Maggie.

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8 years 7 months ago #38625 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: back to basics?
Well," watch me" is getting them to make eye contact with you, best achieved with treats (held right up to your face/eye initially) - this is for me , esp with Luna, a fantastic tool to "cut" into whatever nonsense she is into- will give you a moment of her attentionand you can take it from there. I do LOVE clicker training, works best for most complicated things- and is always, always positive. Usually this works way better in the long run as the dog learns to trust and both( owner and dog) start to cooperate. Having had Cairn Terriers - and a few litters with them- I can have some form of understanding what it might mean to have 3 male JR's...-nothing I would ever undertake, most likely not even if all 3 were neutered....-what a brave person you are. Deerhounds are totally different, only some form of independence joins them. And, the best news is, deerhounds will basically mellow out/mature on their own, between 2-3years of age - just be patient and manage them in public somehow before that. Most of them are very deep, ancient and sensitive souls and can be easily overloaded. Lots of deerhounds seem to like to hold your hands, many even do it in the ring- they do have the right seize for that when adult- seems another trait of the breed- though this one can be scary to the uninitiated. Puppies will learn to adjust their "bite strength" usually just with the owner/"victim" shrieking and removing hand/arm out of reach, turning away, becoming neutral. All of my pups went for the adults like crazy seemingly and the adults being extremely patient, at least for 1, 1.5years- either just waiting it out or going away, the odd growl perhaps but nothing nasty ever. I do not even find them that stubborn, but some things do not suit them, e.g. more than 2-3 reptitions. Also, once you have more than one, recall can be optional- also, always to keep in mind, that most still have a deep desire/instinct to hunt/chase- so, little white things( no matter what) in the distance can be huge triggers for them. Usually though single deerhounds have a fantastic recall. I had dachshunds and terriers and compared to them, Deerhounds are a "piece of cake"- only they have the strength/seize to kill larger animals when hunting....And, I find, Deerhounds do keep changing all their lifes, until the very end- always something to learn for us from them- mostly I find, they make us so much gentler and make us look closer (for their "language"), they tend to be often minimalists in this when adults, but also can be quite the drama queens. Keep enjoying you sweet pup and show her the wonders of the world. One long time deerhound breeder I know ,initially said to me , that she always has the feeling Deerhound(puppies) run around in big, positive "bubbles", assuming everyone loves them and there is no harm in the world (directed towards them)- and she said, she alwasy does her best to leave this bubble intact for them throughout their lives....

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8 years 7 months ago #38626 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: back to basics?
In your absence I googled"watch me", and have already started on the basics of grabbing her attention! Softly softly catchey monkey.
I used clicker training to teach horses to load into trailers and lorries, so i had the knowledge and wasnt using it! Well thats what happens when you get to my age...
She does walk me around the house by my hand , and you are absolutely right about the bubble theory, that made me laugh mainly because its just such a good description.
Originally I had 6 jr`s , all the same litter, I would not recommend anyone to ever do this,whilst I love them dearly they have been a nightmare at times and as they decline their frailties are evident at the moment they are growling at my legs if I wear black jeans....they think I must be deerhound!
Thankyou again for your time and your sound advice, Maggie
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8 years 7 months ago #38645 by Trowsahound
Replied by Trowsahound on topic Re: back to basics?
I am not sure if you mean you only have a problem while out walking using a halter? (If so quite a common problem I think!) I agree they are slow to mature- my girl just reached 2 yrs and is still behaving like a puppy!! One thing you can try that worked for me, if possible find somewhere like a narrow path and teach the dog to walk behind you - if it's possible it is very effective. While infront they take on the attitude of a pack leader, e.g. think they are in charge and are leading you! If you keep them behind you, they totally accept that YOU are in charge. Do this on the lead with a command and treats, and although its difficult to insist on it at first, they get used to it, and it transforms their behaviour while out walking. Naturally to start with you should only do this for short spells or its a bit mean as they want to explore, but gradually build up the duration and its a good way to teach them some on-lead etiquette! Good luck!

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8 years 7 months ago #38647 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: back to basics?
Thank you, sounds like good advice, have a path in mind, strangely off the lead and out of her halter she happily walks behind me. Yesterday her new martingale arrived and I had high hopes of it, but having walked her in it a couple of times I didnt feel entirely in control, still early days yet. I reckon I have whole heartedly unestimated the breed and the difference between DH`s and all the other dogs I`ve had, I`m an honest kind of person so admitting it doesnt cause me any issues. i want to do what is best for her, enjoy her and live to tell the tale. Thank you again for taking the time to give me your help..much appreciated. Maggie.

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