"harnessing energy"

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8 years 8 months ago #38457 by maggiemac
"harnessing energy" was created by maggiemac
Hello everyone, my lunatic today reversed completely out of her collar and scarpered! We were walking alongside a Lincolnshire potato field, with traffic on the left of us and her hurtling headlong,head-over-apex into deep muddy furrows!I put my arm up, and asked the cars to slow(which they did) and after yet another fall into mud she returned. I was terrified, the thought of losing her was overwhelming. We both got covered in mud,out of breath and scared. So my question has to be, what harness?
Normally I use TWO flat collars and TWO leads, mainly so that the "spare" lead can be placed across her chest when she decides to pull, its kind and just gives me a little more control, today however she was only wearing one and she just literally backed out of it! In a game of strength I will lose everytime, but I`m hoping one of you lovely people has the answer, please....

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8 years 8 months ago #38458 by Robb
Replied by Robb on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Some people swear by a Halti although I'm not keen. I do have the strength to hold a DH though so maybe I'm not the best advisor. I like a harness but it does allow a dog to pull you much easier.

Rob B

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8 years 8 months ago #38459 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Hi Rob, mm I know what you mean about Halti`s, used one a few years ago on my rottie but never really liked it, I thought perhaps the world had moved on a bit since then. Obviously when a dog reverses out of her collar strength doesnt even come into it, but I feel at 5`2 and add into the equation the fact that I am basically crumbling the sooner she understands loose lead the better. So I am grateful for your input.

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8 years 8 months ago #38460 by Robb
Replied by Robb on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
One other point. My Lurcher used to slip her collar and I tried a rope lead, again I'm not keen on these or chokes but I considered it a better option than her slipping her lead when cars are around and possibly getting run over. I don't use it now and use a tick Lurcher collar which she can still slip but she's quietened down a lot now.

www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UT...sl_4zq59nyy2m_e

Rob B

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8 years 8 months ago #38462 by Spring
Replied by Spring on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Martingale collar?

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8 years 8 months ago #38463 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thanks again, what was once obvious with other breeds seems almost irrelevant with my deerhound, so its probably going to be trial and error for awhile, many thanks.

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8 years 8 months ago #38464 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
I have just looked at martingale collars on a lurcher site, I had assumed as in horse gear that a martingale would go across the chest-I can see now that it doesn`t, but surely it closes the windpipe if under pressure?

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8 years 8 months ago #38465 by Ironstone
Replied by Ironstone on topic Re: "harnessing energy"

maggiemac wrote: Normally I use TWO flat collars and TWO leads, mainly so that the "spare" lead can be placed across her chest when she decides to pull, its kind and just gives me a little more control, today however she was only wearing one and she just literally backed out of it! In a game of strength I will lose everytime, but I`m hoping one of you lovely people has the answer, please....


Two collars and two leads? Yeesh sounds like you really have your hands full. As you say, in a game of strength you will be the one on the losing end. So the thing to do here is make your dog behave on the lead. May I suggest using a straight, old fashioned chain choke collar? This is for training purposes only and not something you will need to use all the time. But for now, a firm upward pull on the choke chain and immediate release stops your dog in mid-lunge and tells her to behave. It helps to say "heel" at the same time.

I know you are concerned about being kind to your dog, as you said so in the above quote, but real kindness lies in teaching your dear girlie to behave herself on lead. I can picture tiny 5'2" you being hauled around a potato field tethered to a great galloping deerhound. dh:) It just won't do.

Good luck with this,
Shelley

Ironstone Deerhounds

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8 years 8 months ago #38466 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
If it hadnt been so scary I would have laughed out loud! Under normal circumstances she walks very well, and stays close to my leg, however I`m not stupid and have learned quickly to be on her like Flynn when I feel her madness rising and it does on occasion , mole hills seem to set off into a kind of frenzied digging action that you dont want to be anywhere near, she lurches and jumps and disregards all voice requests. I`m sure all you experienced dh owners are laughing out loud now, but you recognise my problem. I am an experienced dog owner-but not with this breed, and choke chains do work in the right hands, I`m just reluctant to resort to anything that could cause her damage. Like the horse dh strength comes from the shoulders and not the neck, and you wouldnt put a choker on a horse ,you would however try and control the head by a head collar and then a bit. Have you used a martingale collar and what are your thoughts on this as it looks like a softer option?
Many thanks for your help.

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8 years 8 months ago - 8 years 8 months ago #38467 by Lurch8252
Replied by Lurch8252 on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
I have a Deerhound who has pulled like crazy all his life. We've had greyhound collars, Halti's and a Martingale collar. His pulling has caused him damage. He now has neck and disc problems and me, I have arms like a monkey :woohoo:

My vet recommended a harness to me and I went online to look at comfortable padded ones that do not tug at the coat. I have an ANCOL one, black in colur so blends in with him and it is so padded and comfy for him. I bought it online. It is one you would use to restrain a dog in the car. Does he pull anymore? definitely not, I am now in control and we walk where I want to walk and not where he does!

I cannot recommend this strongly enough. If you have a serial puller he/she could end up with disc problems and costly vet bills.

and they have a sale on!!!

www.pet-supermarket.co.uk...ness_NC3379.htm
Last edit: 8 years 8 months ago by Lurch8252.

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8 years 8 months ago #38468 by Spring
Replied by Spring on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
The martingale won't particularly help with training, but does stop them being able to back out of a collar.
You adjust it so it comfortably slips over the head and it's relaxed on their neck when walking on a loose lead. When they pull, it tightens, but only a couple of inches. So at the tight circumference it's smaller than the width of the dogs head and cannot slip off. It does not continue to tighten ad-infinitum like a slip lead or choke chain, so doesn't throttle the dog. Saying that, I don't have strong objections to slip leads or chokes in the right circumstances. Picture of Fergal in his martingale below.



In the past, for various reasons, we have also used a Mercuti harness (good because it has two points of contact for the lead, neither of which are on the powerful neck. It also doesn't have the bits that cut in under the front legs) and a gentle leader (lead attaches under the nose).

Sue
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8 years 8 months ago #38469 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thankyou, sorry to hear that your dog has damaged himself, I must admit this is my real worry. I shall take onboard all the advice you have given and let you know how we fare, many thanks.

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8 years 8 months ago #38470 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thank you for the advice, what a lovely dog! The collar you show was the type I had looked at on the lurcher site certainly worth a try.

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8 years 8 months ago #38471 by crackadog
Replied by crackadog on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Hi, I have a martingale collar for Freya - which she wears only when going on lead. However we have a harness for both dogs. Murphy the terrier likes his and is much easier to control. Freya has hers on very rarely-only if I am taking them both out in public places on my own and they have to be "on lead" It has worked well for both as there is no pulling on the neck, especially if Murphy decides he has to investigate the squirrel or some other dog etc. Freya doesn't like it but never attempts to pull when it is on. It was from Tesco but looks similar to the one already suggested. We tried quite a few before we got one that fitted and was easy to put on -some are like a puzzle solving exercise!

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8 years 8 months ago #38472 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thanks, it will be a case of try everything until I find what works best for her, youve been very helpful.

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8 years 8 months ago #38475 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thanks to all of you for your helpful replies, we came back from a wonderful walk this morning, her majesty didnt pull at all, puff jerky in one pocket and my old horse show cane in the other, little taps on the nose when she breached the loose lead rule.~@?>{Sorry its hard to type with a DH sitting on your laptop.

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8 years 8 months ago #38477 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
I also would stay away from all collars around the neck to be honest, esp, chokers and similar - they easily , so easily can damage not only their necks/tracheas and more, but also the whole spine...For Deerhounds who have to be on leash regularly, do pull, are in training I'd always go with a harness! Best even, when you could attach a leash end on top and one in the front of the harness, helps to find the balance. Just be caeful to find one, that oes not cut into their armpits, very sensitive area there, too....And, "watch me" exercises,,best done initially when nothing distracts can be a of great help, too. I am a Tellington TTouch practitioner and have worked with pulling dogs more often tha not, also, just got my latest Deerhound puppy treough the " extreme pulling and jumping up" stages.... Keep having fun with you pup!

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8 years 8 months ago #38478 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thankyou, much appreciated, went to a Linda Tellington "display" at Arena uk many years ago and used quite a bit of her methods on the horses, but it was all superseeded by Parelli and Roberts, I suppose really its just use what suits the individual.For me ,positive re-inforcement has always worked with the dogs, but dh`s dont really care to please their owners as much as other breeds, I am always learning, and have decided more research is needed on the question of harness type , but again thanks for your input. Maggie.

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8 years 8 months ago #38486 by Craters_on_the_lawn
Replied by Craters_on_the_lawn on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
I can sympathize - my deerhound cross is 32 inches at the shoulder and weighs 45kg, which is not much less than me! So when he lunges, I really used to struggle.
He has been taught to heel beautifully, but the problem comes when he sees something he's excited about - a cat, or often a dog he wants to play with (he still a rather puppyish at age nearly 4). He lunges so forcefully that I really struggle to hold him, I can usually only manage if I get hold of his collar, and then I'm still pulled about. I had tried a canny collar, but found it useless - he still lunged. I have taught the "leave" command, which usually works as long as I see trouble coming before he gets excited. We live in a small town, walks always involve about 5-10 minutes of lead walking before we get to open country, away from other people/dogs and can go off lead.

Anyway the crunch came when one day a stray collie came up behind us, I didn't notice and Henry lunged before I could stop him, dragging me into the road where I was pulled along for 10 meters before crashing into the tarmac. We were nearly hit by a car, and my arm muscles were so torn that I could not go to work for a week - or walk my dogs. (my poor husband with his bad knee had to hobble round with them) I was rather shaken up and extremely aprehensive about walking Henry again.

Anyway I did lots of research and brought a dogmatic head collar and have found it to be excellent. It looks and works more like a harness that you would use on a pony (and it certainly makes Henry look even more like a pony than before!!! - I already get enough comments about "you wanna put a saddle on that")Its nicely padded, clips on extremely quick and easily (unlike other head - collars) and most importantly - it works! No more lunging! I know some people may think they are unkind but safety has to be my prority - we could have both been killed. And no-one complains about horses in headcollars - no-one thinks it would be better to lead horses about by collars. I have a 2 meter double-ended lead attached both to the dogmatic and to the collar so when he is walking nicely and I just need to correct him slightly - eg if I am changing direction, then I can just pull on the collar rather than pull him about by his head all the time. Seems kinder. Also means that if there is ever an occasion when either the collar or dogmatic failed, at least I still have some hold on him, and should be able to avert a disaster.
Dogmatics are about twice the price of a canny collar, but in Henry's case, definately worth the money. I could only find them for sale on the internet - but you can choose from about 20 different sizes to make sure you have the best one to fit your dog (make sure you measure your dog properly first).

It really has changed my life - I so wish I had brought one years ago - I hadn't realized how stressful walks had become, with me tensing as we went round every corner, watching for a cat or dog, ready to hold tight. Now I confidently walk both my dogs together (and the other one's pretty strong too), safe in the knowledge that I can hold them both if a cat suddenly decides to run out in front of us, etc.

Some people may say I shouldn't have got such a large dog I can't hold in the first place - well when we took Henry home from Hereford and Worcester Animal Rescue we had NO idea he was going to grow SO large! I honestly thought we were getting a greyhound size and weight dog. Perhaps we were rather naive - but we wouldn't change him now for the world - we all adore him and I feel so lucky to be sharing my life with such a beautiful and extra-ordinary dog. I can see how deerhounds have captured the hearts and minds of everyone on this forum - my boy has certainly had a similar effect on me (although he's obviously a mixture of some kind, not pure deerhound).

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8 years 8 months ago #38488 by maggiemac
Replied by maggiemac on topic Re: "harnessing energy"
Thankyou so much for your informative reply! I shall look into this "head-collar" today. And you are quite right with the analogy between DH`s and horses, and control under any circumstance has to be a priority for everyones sake. My DH is only a puppy but she`s huge, she can and does walk to heel some of the time, but every now and then its as if she`s been stung, theres no other dog or a cat anywhere to be seen, she just "bubbles over". I did for many years control my horses and I will win this battle with Aoife, god willing lol!She is the most wonderful companion and I know given time and patience she will reach her true potential.
Thank you again.Maggie.

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