UK Wolf conservation reading

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9 years 5 days ago - 9 years 5 days ago #26229 by houndy
houndy replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
A wolf kills a sheep for it's survival - a dog that is encouraged and allowed to kill a wolf is sport that satisfys human perversion
Last Edit: 9 years 5 days ago by houndy.

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9 years 5 days ago #26237 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
The reason why there are no Wolves in UK is just that they have been killed for taking stock and then killed in higher numbers just in case they take more stock or attack people (a very rare occurance). Rather than kill them for taking stock, methods should be found to prevent them doing so. I'm not advocating killing them with dogs but if dogs guarded the flocks it does keep them at bay as Joerg has pointed out. Also with more research there must be lots of other methods that could be employed. Wolves have been introduced into Yellowstone and I know farmers were up in arms but I believe the problem has been contained.

Also the reason why wolves would take stock is because they are hungry as we have wiped out their natural prey to make more room for our stock!

Rob B

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9 years 5 days ago #26239 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Robb wrote:

hairybeasty wrote:

Basically if they attack our children or our stock,then yes...Raoul Moat was a naughty boy..and most people are glad he is dead and no longer a threat..so what's the difference?..just coz they've got furry coats on? :P


I think that you’re stretching things a bit much here. Because one individual of a species commits a bad act doesn’t justify wiping out the whole species. As for killing them for taking stock, don't you think that its also the responsibility of stock keepers to use methods of keeping predators at bay rather than exterminating them all. The purpose of this topic is about the conservation of an endangered species and preventing further decline caused by people with your attitude towards them.


The point I was trying to make was that Raoul Moat was a cold blooded killer...like the wolf..some might say they were mis-understood,but to me there are both the same...although one knows the difference between right and wrong,and the other doesn't...but just because a creature doesnt know it's done wrong,does that make it's actions acceptable?

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9 years 5 days ago #26240 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
houndy wrote:

Agree - it;s called life and the risks associated with it,.


I also agree,but it cuts both ways...take my stock and pay the price...

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9 years 5 days ago #26241 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
houndy wrote:

The purpose of a wolf killing a sheep is for it's survival - a dog allowed to hunt down and kill a wolf is sport to satisfy sick human perversion


Four things here that I take issue with here..
1.I dont understand how the life of a sheep is any less valueable than that of a wolf...
2.It seems to me that it is not the manner of the death that you disagree with,just the reasons behind it...
3.The reasons why people killed wolves,was as Robb says,to protect stock and human life..not from any perversion..
4.As a Hunting man,I take no pleasure in killing of vermin..it is just a job that must be done..like squashing flies..or sending murderers to the electric chair..

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9 years 5 days ago #26242 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Robb wrote:

The reason why there are no Wolves in UK is just that they have been killed for taking stock and then killed in higher numbers just in case they take more stock or attack people (a very rare occurance). Rather than kill them for taking stock, methods should be found to prevent them doing so. I'm not advocating killing them with dogs but if dogs guarded the flocks it does keep them at bay as Joerg has pointed out. Also with more research there must be lots of other methods that could be employed. Wolves have been introduced into Yellowstone and I know farmers were up in arms but I believe the problem has been contained.

Also the reason why wolves would take stock is because they are hungry as we have wiped out their natural prey to make more room for our stock!


Would I be right in saying that Saxony and Yellowstone are vast areas of Caledonian forest that stretch unbroken for many miles in all directions?
If thats true it sounds like just the place for wolves to exist without friction against man and his farming..and good on them..
Could it be that wolves and foxes take stock because sheep etc are lacking in the survival instincts that deer and other prey species rely on for survival..and sheep are stupid and can't run very fast?

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9 years 5 days ago #26244 by houndy
houndy replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
hairybeasty wrote:

houndy wrote:

The purpose of a wolf killing a sheep is for it's survival - a dog allowed to hunt down and kill a wolf is sport to satisfy sick human perversion


Four things here that I take issue with here..
1.I dont understand how the life of a sheep is any less valueable than that of a wolf...
2.It seems to me that it is not the manner of the death that you disagree with,just the reasons behind it...
3.The reasons why people killed wolves,was as Robb says,to protect stock and human life..not from any perversion..
4.As a Hunting man,I take no pleasure in killing of vermin..it is just a job that must be done..like squashing flies..or sending murderers to the electric chair..[/quote

Of course man enjoys hunting and killing wolves! and I do consider it a perversion and if you cant see the difference between a wolk killing a sheep to survive and man encouraging a dog to hunt down a wolf then.....

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9 years 5 days ago #26245 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Of course I can see the difference,but dont see how one is more or less acceptable than the other...it's just the clash that happens when two species are trying to use the same resource..
I so dont see why it is wrong to kill an animal if it interferes with farming practice..

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9 years 5 days ago #26247 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
HB I think you are missing the point. The Wolf has been exterminated in the UK and much of the civilised world because of man's farming and industrial practises. Indeed not just the Wolf but many more species. There are many people on the planet who feel that we owe it to these species to help them to recover their numbers to some degree and offer them protection to do so.

You say that sheep have just as much right to protection as Wolves but there must be millions of sheep in the UK and how many Wolves, Nil.

Intensive farming has stolen the Wolf's natural habitat and it is farming that should hand some of it back. Look at the vast estates in the scottish wilderness that exist for the hunting of deer and grouse for pleasure and profit, they also are to blame and could help.

There is an estate owner who want's to re-introduce wolves but is prevented from doing so by farmers, other estates and hikers.

Rob B

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9 years 5 days ago #26248 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Sorry Robb I dont think I am missing the point at all..just see it from the opposite point of view from everyone else...
Quite glad the man has been stopped from re-introducing wolves to Scotland..unless they are in an electrified reserve of a few thousand acres..I dont see they have any place here...
We will never agree on this,so I will leave it there.
All the best with the re-introduction plans..just dont expect me to hang out the flags in celebration.. :)

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9 years 5 days ago - 9 years 5 days ago #26249 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
The man did want to introduce them into a fenced area of a few thousand acres but there were still objections.

I seem to remember a post on here where you were dismayed that your dogs may be at risk because of killing rabbits, cats injuring other dogs with the new proposed dog laws. Seems just as valid comparison as you bringing Moat into the discusion.

Rob B
Last Edit: 9 years 5 days ago by Robb.

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9 years 5 days ago - 9 years 5 days ago #26250 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Robb wrote:

The man did want to introduce them into a fenced area of a few thousand acres but there were still objections.

I seem to remember a post on here where you were dismayed that your dogs may be at risk because of killing rabbits, cats injuring other dogs with the new proposed dog laws. Seems just as valid comparison as you bringing Moat into the discusion.


If he was intending to put wolves into a fenced reserve then I dont see what objections could be valid..a bit like that drunk in Australia who climbed into the croc pen at a zoo..only himself to blame when he got bitten... :blink:

Dont get the next point that you make though.. :blush:
Hang on..think I've got the gist of where you're coming from...I think what you are saying is that because my dogs kill things,in your opinion they dont deserve to live and should be destroyed...like Mr Moat... :laugh:
Last Edit: 9 years 5 days ago by hairybeasty.

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9 years 5 days ago #26251 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
hairybeasty wrote:

Robb wrote:

The man did want to introduce them into a fenced area of a few thousand acres but there were still objections.

I seem to remember a post on here where you were dismayed that your dogs may be at risk because of killing rabbits, cats injuring other dogs with the new proposed dog laws. Seems just as valid comparison as you bringing Moat into the discusion.


If he was intending to put wolves into a fenced reserve then I dont see what objections could be valid..a bit like that drunk in Australia who climbed into the croc pen at a zoo..only himself to blame when he got bitten... :blink:

Dont get the next point that you make though.. :blush:
Hang on..think I've got the gist of where you're coming from...I think what you are saying is that because my dogs kill things,in your opinion they dont deserve to live and should be destroyed...like Mr Moat... :laugh:


I give up with you but not the Wolves.

Rob B

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9 years 5 days ago #26252 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Hang on I was being serious...what did you mean then?

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9 years 5 days ago #26253 by houndy
houndy replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
HB - I do not understand why you are bringing Moat into this debate :unsure: He made concious decisions to kill - a wolf kills because it is instinct and survival. Moat has had far too much publicity for his unforgiveable actions so lets leave him out of it eh?

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9 years 5 days ago #26255 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
hairybeasty wrote:

Hang on I was being serious...what did you mean then?


Without wishing to offend. You think that its quite acceptable to hunt with your dogs for sport but that wolves have no right to kill to survive even if it does mean taking the occasional stock animal because their natural prey has been eradicated. I do find this attitude rather hypocritical.

I also agree that Moat should never have been mentioned in this thread as he can in no way be compared with a Wolf that kills to eat.

Rob B

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9 years 5 days ago #26256 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
The reason I brought Mr Moat into this was simply to compare wolves and him together...they are both killers with no remorse...and I wouldnt wish either of them to be in my neck of the woods..or yours for that matter..that was all.
It makes no difference wether the decision was deliberate or instinctual..the fact remains..it wouldnt be recommended to go out when killers are on the loose..

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9 years 5 days ago #26258 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
hairybeasty wrote:

The reason I brought Mr Moat into this was simply to compare wolves and him together...they are both killers with no remorse...and I wouldnt wish either of them to be in my neck of the woods..or yours for that matter..that was all.
It makes no difference wether the decision was deliberate or instinctual..the fact remains..it wouldnt be recommended to go out when killers are on the loose..


Yes but Mr moat killed people because he couldn't understand or control his feelings/emotions, Wolves kill prey to eat, rarely humans unless they or their young are threatened. There's a whole world of difference.

Rob B

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9 years 5 days ago - 9 years 5 days ago #26260 by chook
chook replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
Wolfs wouldnt have remorse, they are not human - its only humans who
sometimes show remorse, except for monkey's theres no other animal that can
show it, we can not put human feelings on to animals.


End of the day wolfs, like tigers, dogs and lots of other animals out there
are bred to hunt and kill, its a fact of life - if you own a dog
then sorry but you own a hunting animal, with the breed we have
the hunt instint is even stronger - should we penalise all animals for trying to survive?
or doing what they was bred to do?

Jane
Last Edit: 9 years 5 days ago by chook.

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9 years 5 days ago #26261 by hairybeasty
hairybeasty replied the topic: Re:UK Wolf conservation reading
OK,so the films of people being tracked by wolves for miles,with the slowest person being picked off as the opportunity arises are just fiction then?

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