Exporting

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9 years 10 months ago #5321 by elvee
elvee replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Thankyou for that post Mysdeerie,I think that has brought us all down to earth.Surely we're all united in our love of this noble breed.

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9 years 10 months ago #5323 by Ardneish
Ardneish replied the topic: Re:Exporting
sally wrote:

Well said fieldandjack.


I am astonished at the attacks upon me, because I choose to voice my concerns I have that right.
and with regard to encouraging " Newbies"
Was it not me Sally that spotted your lovely bitch as a puppy , having never seen or met you I still noticed that lovely puppy and told you how much I thought of her and encouraged you to show her
was that not encouraging for a " Newbie", and then when I judged at Kelso I choose to give your lovely bitch her 2nd Challenge Certificate, and the Reserve CC to a " Newbie", as I judge hounds and not people , how can I every be accused of not helping New people to the breed

The problem is, success can go to some peoples heads and before you know it within a couple of years they Know everything! and are not open to learn from anyone.

I explained how to export a puppy to Germany , I wasted my time, as it was ignored. I stated the view that I personally would not travel puppies of that age for two days, I have that right,

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9 years 10 months ago #5330 by sally
sally replied the topic: Re:Exporting
In our personal experience, we have had no end of help, advice and support from the more
experienced people within the breed and it is vey much appreciated. We would not have
achieved what we have achieved so far without their encouragement.:)

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #5350 by Keijke
Keijke replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Oh Fiddle, tanks for the lovely puppy pictures you gave us. :laugh: And thanks for the lovely pictures of Grace that you send to me.
I visit Norberts breeder last friday and Norbert have to play with his sisters. He was rather afraid of them. He think they are so wild and crazy. Here he is the wildest except the cat of course. He is much more comfortable with that. He was little scared of them.:laugh:
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9 years 10 months ago #5361 by Brollachan
Brollachan replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Wow! Have I been missing out while slaving away at work. First of all, I love the puppy pics Fiddle, they are gorgeous. Keep them coming.

Betina I am sure everyone here shares your general concerns on the welfare of the breed, and yes, there are some very ignorant and careless people out there but don't tar all newbies with the same brush. Out of curiosity, after reading your post, does that mean you would not export your pups overseas? Or was it just the age that bothered you. To export dogs to Australia they have to be at least 3 months old. I know frozen semen is an option but if you don't have a bitch...also AI doesn't seem to be a high probable way of taking with Deerhounds.

I have had Deerhounds for over 20 years (and still learning and am not too proud to ask for advice even if I sound a twit), only started showing 6 years ago and will breed one day (though that process scares me silly :)) I am lucky to have very experienced breeders to seek advise and support from. Mind you, living in Tassie, we are fairly isolated.

Well said Barb :)

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9 years 10 months ago #5373 by Ardneish
Ardneish replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Brollachan

I do encourage Newbie’s, see my reply to sally with regard to her Champion bitch,
Another example is when attending the recent Limited show, I spotted a bitch that took my breath away, sadly she was unplaced, I made a point of going over to the owner who was very disappointed to say I thought his bitch was outstanding and that he should not give up , she had doxhope breeding going back to Shenval. I had not seen the bitch or the owner before..

My comments are directed to the UK, there are too many puppies being bred with no regard to hereditary health issues along with temperament type function and suitable homes for a large running hound, Kenneth Cassels voiced his concerns also with regard to this matter at the AGM.

I also know of established deerhound breeders who have bred outstanding examples who now will not have a litter to continue their line because of concerns that they will be unable to find suitable homes for the progeny due to the huge amount being bred , a bad thing for the gene pool here in the UK,

I am not sure of the figures for 2008, I guess it to be probably around 300, I am sure someone will post the exact figures, I recall that Bjorn ( Fiddle) posted somewhere that in Germany I think around 70 were bred, and 20 in Holland. ( but don’t quote me on the figures.)

Europe has a vastly larger population than the British Isles so easier to find good homes.

I had to visit a litter last year to rescue, I found them in mud, running with fleas, thin and with no protection from the rain and elements. Needless to say it broke my heart I thought Deerhounds deserve better than this. Happily they were treated and found good homes.

I also heard of a 5 month old puppy bred in Wales sent to her new home with two breaks in its legs that had been there for sometime, without treatment, can you imagine the pain that puppy was in!, sadly the new owners had to have her put to sleep..

Whilst of course most puppy stories end up happy , I am just pointing out that not all do.

No I would not export to Australia its too longer journey for a puppy bred by myself I do not however judge others I just say what I would do, and I know the care they receive at the Airports is very good.

I only breed rarely just to continue my line, about once every four years.

I am only voicing what a lot of other fantastic club members are thinking but are maybe not as stupid as me to put their head above the parapet

I hope you all enjoy your gorgeous puppies and I wish you and your Deerhounds well.

Bientot

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9 years 10 months ago #5374 by MrsMc
MrsMc replied the topic: Re:Exporting
When I went to my first Champ show later on last year a lovely lady gave me lots of advice before I went in the ring. I think she saw me looking worried. :) She was so nice and she actually went on to win. It was a Stafford showground. Alan and Sally probably know her but the name escapes me now. She really made me feel at ease and welcome. It does make such a difference. Of course Alan and Sally are always friendly faces.

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9 years 10 months ago #5376 by feldandjack
feldandjack replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Ardneish wrote:

sally wrote:

Well said fieldandjack.


I am astonished at the attacks upon me, because I choose to voice my concerns I have that right.
and with regard to encouraging " Newbies"
Was it not me Sally that spotted your lovely bitch as a puppy , having never seen or met you I still noticed that lovely puppy and told you how much I thought of her and encouraged you to show her
was that not encouraging for a " Newbie", and then when I judged at Kelso I choose to give your lovely bitch her 2nd Challenge Certificate, and the Reserve CC to a " Newbie", as I judge hounds and not people , how can I every be accused of not helping New people to the breed

The problem is, success can go to some peoples heads and before you know it within a couple of years they Know everything! and are not open to learn from anyone.

I explained how to export a puppy to Germany , I wasted my time, as it was ignored. I stated the view that I personally would not travel puppies of that age for two days, I have that right,





I agree it would not be everyones choice to send puppies abroad, I agreed to this because of the quality of the home offered and dedication of the new owners. I have no objection to you voicing your opinion on the export of puppies, it was the 'Out of sight, out of mind' comment I found offensive. However, forums are notorious for getting folks backs up unintentionally, perhaps I was too hasty in my response.

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #5377 by verenav
verenav replied the topic: Re:Exporting
I can only write as someone , who has ex/imported dogs for myself - the first time it happened when I immigrated to Canada , with my 3 aging dogs and 1 aging cat ; sitting , finally , in the plane from Frankfurt to Vancouver/Canada , thinking of my " poor babies " down there somewhere and feeling really bad - " my goodness , what have I done (to them ) " was about the line of my toughts. Many hours later I opened their crates and they came out , never missing a beat and being so happy in their new homecountry. That was truly astonishing to me - especially as I never crate trained them before ( only the cat a bit ) . The , many years later I was going to get my 2nd Deerhound and she happened to be from Denmark - once the breeder and I had come to an agreement , I asked to please put a crate in with them right away , and would you believe it , the chosen girl started sleeping in it all by herself - the door being open , no one had put her in the crate...She came when she was 11 weeks old ( to avoid to have to vaccinate her against rabies that early in her life - I prefer to do it not before they are 1/2 year old - for here she would have needed this vaccination once she rached 12 weeks of age ) . Her breeder put her on a plane in Kopenhagen and I drove down to Seattle(7-8hour drive ) , as there were no direct flights to Vancouver - again , we felt really bad ( " the worst days in my life " , I quote the breeder waiting for my phonecall ) , the pup smelled a bit as she had of course peed in her crate , but she right away settled in and behaved absolutley normal. Meanwhile I brought 2 more dhs into my house from overseas , 1 from England and 1 from Germany - both came with friends of mine and both were around 3 mths old , both took everything in stride without any problems . Luckily Germany now is a rabies free country , so the shots weren't a problem the last time . I am astonished how easily it went for all of my girls and some others I know of who flew over the ocean - it means at least 13 hours in a crate for them and of course the travel time to and from the resp. airports . I myself would have more difficulties , I am sure - not having flown anywhere for 14 years...
With regards to breeding , I had a few litters some 30 year ago or so , with small dogs , planned and papered . I have deerhounds now for 8+years ( 5 all together ) , followed the breed for some 14years more closely and only now , during the last 2 years or so , I feel ready to have a litter , realising , that I have found my
" type " of deerhound , formed a picture of what I want in/for them . That doesn't mean I will ever do this - and if , I would for sure enlist the help of the only deerhound breeder we have in BC and other people - not so much for rearing the pups but to find good homes . And , long before that , I'd need the help of lots of other people to research the males that I might like to become the father . And , I would only breed if my lifestyle allowed me to keep the pups for as long as it takes to find the homes - that might very well be 1year - have seen this with some breeders I look up to. I am , meanwhile , as careful/discriminative with choosing a breeder as a breeder should be when finding homes for their pups btw.....

Attached a recent pic of my deerhound baby from Denmark , now 7 years old
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9 years 10 months ago #5387 by Ardneish
Ardneish replied the topic: Re:Exporting
What a beautiful Deerhound she reminds me of my Greystiel Aberarder sister to CH Clunie and Dunochtan such a lovely head, and what a lucky girl to have you in her life

Fieldjack I am big enough to apologise if I caused an offence to you, I am sure your puppies are much loved

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9 years 10 months ago #5388 by Terry
Terry replied the topic: Re:Exporting
What a surprise this topic has become, I'd not been on-line since Sat. pm and, wow, so much going on.

The pictures of the pups are lovely and I thought what Betina said about "cute puppy pictures" wasn't meant as a negative but was the positive side of an issue that has some very ugly things happening that we may not see too very often, you know the "rose tinted spectacles" thing. So in her concern about those things she offered the ugly side. Surely most people breeding Deerhounds have the best interests of the dogs and the breed at the fore-front of their thoughts and actions, but not all really do the research and consider all the aspects involved in breeding. It's so easy to get excited about the beauty and other qualities of our dogs that we want to go all out and make more, share the wealth if you will. All of you have made valid comments about that and the selection of homes and the transportation of pups. There is a lot of responsibility on the part of both the breeder and the new owner (for lack of a better word). Both of my Derries came from the UK and of course they weren't driven here, what a blessing that would be if we could. They did not suffer any adverse effects. The flights were not too long, about 7 hours to the States, a break when the pup had a walk about and feed, then about 2 1/2 hours to home, where they were taken home in a short drive. The one I personally brought over was happy and bouncing about when released from her crate. One was about two months plus old and the other was four and a half months. And they are marvelous girls. If not for flying them over I'd never have gotten them.

They are companions, show dogs and working dogs, well one lure courses ( we don't often get the chance to after the real thing) , and both will go after any thing warm, fuzzy, that moves. They meet all the reasons for Deerhounds to exist. Remember Sir Walter Scott, "a most perfect creature of Heaven." They are my children.

As for breeding, I would love to breed mine but have not been able to meet the criteria I feel one must meet when dealing with such a magnificent breed. The careful, delilberate study of whom to breed to (issues of health conformation, and the prey drive of the bloodline), accomodations for whelping and maintaining til homed, the critical process of vetting the prospective recipient, and the agreements about care and placement if things don't work out. All so much more complex than that simple sentence. I, as an owner, stay in contact with the breeders of my girls, keeping them informed of any accomplishments, etc. That too,I feel is a part of having a dog.

And I look to the breeders and owners, that have been with Deerhounds longer than I, for help with any sort of issue that might arise. They are the ones who generally have been instrumental in keeping the breed viable through the years. Though there are some who didn't want their work with developing the breed known and destoryed their information. Hopefully, today breeders will be open and honest about the history and health issues of their bloodline, all of which will keep Deerhounds the Breed we all love and admire. To achieve that we all have to over come ego and work together, which I feel we tend to do most of the time.

So don't hesitate to ask questions, offer your advice and knowlege, and state your opinions, We're all in this together and to keep the breed going we have to work together and may, from time to time have to send the wee'uns on a bit of a trip.

Keep it up and on going,

Terry
ps. Verena, what an expression he has, don't you wish we could read their minds.

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9 years 10 months ago #5394 by mysdeerie
mysdeerie replied the topic: Re:Exporting
verenav she is lovely, I do so love older deerhounds with there almost human matriarchal wise gaze.
I think you and many others have raised some very important points of concern. I think that the research involved to plan a well considered breeding is huge. I have heard finding the "type" of dh one is looking to use in a mating is very subjective (even within the confines of the breed standard) and is a significant problem for breeders. Developing a judicious eye for evaluating conformation takes a lot of experience and I know I'm not there yet.
Thank you Ardneish for informing us of the terrible #'s of dh needing rehoming etc. & indiscriminate breeding. No easy fix there.
I hope to go to the National Specialty in Missouri in May & will further my education there.
Cheers all.
I must tear myself away from this computer and get some work done. Floors to wash, laundry....

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9 years 10 months ago #5397 by Terry
Terry replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Hi Barb,

You'll have a longer drive to the Specialty than I. I'm in north-eastern Florida. I shall look forward to meeting you. Are you going for the entire week? I hope to get there the Sunday evening before and get some rest before the coursing.

Terry

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9 years 10 months ago #5403 by sally
sally replied the topic: Re:Exporting
I really do not think there is a hugh number of Deerhounds for re-homing. Lurchers, yes
definately but that is another issue. Sue Reynolds, Uk Deerhound Club puppy co-ordinator and
rehoming co-ordinator will tell you that she has a waiting list of people waiting for
re-homers, so where are all these rescues because the homes are there waiting for them.

The website address that Ardneish posted is for a lurcher rescue that I know extremly well
because we fostered lurchers for 3 years for that particular rescue and know the workings
of it inside out and I can assure anyone that Pip (chairman and founder of rescue) would
always contact Sue Reynolds if she thought we had a Deerhound or Deerhound X in and I have
sat in Pips house whilst she made some of these calls. If you take a look at our website
(Claonaiglen, linked from here) you will see on our gallery page three of EGLR's lurchers
that we fostered and then kept.

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9 years 10 months ago #5411 by Brollachan
Brollachan replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Australia is so isolated and has such a limited gene pool, far less than the UK, and we also have a couple of breeders that breed too often and therefore saturate the market. The only injection we get is from importing. Both sires of Bree and Lockie were imported and they were older pups. I think, if a lot of planning in regards to flights etc and can be done within a 24 hour period.
When I took Bree to our Specialty which is only an hour flight, I was in tears on the plane worrying about her. She was fine, it was me that was stressed :blink:

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #5415 by Ardneish
Ardneish replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Brollachan wrote:

Australia is so isolated and has such a limited gene pool, far less than the UK, and we also have a couple of breeders that breed too often and therefore saturate the market. The only injection we get is from importing. Both sires of Bree and Lockie were imported and they were older pups. I think, if a lot of planning in regards to flights etc and can be done within a 24 hour period.
When I took Bree to our Specialty which is only an hour flight, I was in tears on the plane worrying about her. She was fine, it was me that was stressed :blink:


If it were a Deerhound for you that would be a different story, I have been so moved by your posts your love and devotion to this amazing breed shines through and I am very glad this breed has people like you in it, it bodes so very well.
:)
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9 years 10 months ago #5420 by houndy
houndy replied the topic: Re:Exporting
sally wrote:

I really do not think there is a hugh number of Deerhounds for re-homing. Lurchers, yes
definately but that is another issue. Sue Reynolds, Uk Deerhound Club puppy co-ordinator and
rehoming co-ordinator will tell you that she has a waiting list of people waiting for
re-homers, so where are all these rescues because the homes are there waiting for them.

The website address that Ardneish posted is for a lurcher rescue that I know extremly well
because we fostered lurchers for 3 years for that particular rescue and know the workings
of it inside out and I can assure anyone that Pip (chairman and founder of rescue) would
always contact Sue Reynolds if she thought we had a Deerhound or Deerhound X in and I have
sat in Pips house whilst she made some of these calls. If you take a look at our website
(Claonaiglen, linked from here) you will see on our gallery page three of EGLR's lurchers
that we fostered and then kept.


I have also fostered fpr Pip quite a few years ago now. She does a marvelleous job and is always so patient with everyone.

Maybe in this economic climate we will see more Deerhounds up for rehoming as people lose their homes and have to go into rented non pet friendly accomadation or for other reasons. The rehoming problem is bad enough with other breeds of dogs.
I have been on the D/H rehoming list for ages (as I expected) and have not had a hound offered as yet and in a way it is a good thing as it means that there appears to be few D/h's that need to be rehomed but that may soon change

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9 years 10 months ago #5426 by sally
sally replied the topic: Re:Exporting
I hope your not:( , but you could be right here Trish. With the credit crunch and homes
being repossessed it is not always possible for people to take their dogs with them.
As you say, a lot of rented and council accommodation will not take dogs and certainly
not ones the size of ours. Fancy you being fostering for EGLR. It's a small world isn't
it?:ohmy:

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9 years 10 months ago #5433 by alan
alan replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Having had working lurchers for eighteen years, a very hands on involvement in lurcher rescue as well as fostering and now also being owned by Deerhounds, I take particular interest in whats going on in the underworld of unwanted dogs. Half of my favorites list is sites connected to welfare/rescue and in at least the last three years I can only think of one PURE Deerhound that I've seen and that was on Black Beauties which is based in Ireland, and re-home loads of dogs in the UK. So, the point is, I'm not sure where all these missused, abused Deerhounds are as they don't seem to appear on any rescue sites, council pounds, bargain page adverts, and the Deerhound Club in the UK have a waiting list of homes for any Deerhound found wandering the streets. There will always be the occasional case of mistreatment and this is sure to have always been the case, but as welfare standards continue to improve, our awareness also improves.

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #5436 by houndy
houndy replied the topic: Re:Exporting
Six years ago my late husband and I bought/rescued a 18 month old deerhound bitch from a person in North Pembrokeshire Wales who was puppy farming D/h's along with IW's. She had been advertised in a 'free ads' paper.Only 18 months old she had already had a litter and was kept in the most appalling conditions as were the rest of the dogs and puppies. They had not been tested or innoculated and as pups were allowed to free run with horses with no supervision. She just let them out on the hills to get on with it.This lady was well known to the D/H club and RSPCA who could not do anything as the dogs had shelter and food (surprise surprise!). We contacted Sue Reynolds who asked us to 'just go and get her out of there' which we did.

Kim and Zoe and the late Eve Braybrooke helped us when Ellie escaped from us as she was terrified of humans and psychologically damaged from lack of socialisation. Ellie then spent some time with Kim and Zoe at Wolfscastle and eventually went to stay permantley with Paul and Eve and their deerhounds and lived out the rest of her life as happily as possible (Ellie died last year).

Sue Reynolds told me that they had to rehome 4 dogs from this breeder.

The point that I am making is that there exists bad people with bad motives in all breeds of dog but I think that because the D/H network is quite tight and most people know each one way or another the chances of deerhounds ending up in pounds ect is highly unlikey as we all 'keep our eyes open' so to speak.

The hundred pounds deerhound in Barnstaple is a clasic example of how the d/h community can act when a deerhound is in trouble and thank goodness we can and do
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