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TOPIC: Deerhound Club

Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40158

Always wondered why the Deerhound club does'nt use Scottish in it's name.
Irish wolfhound's have the full name in their club title's, etc..

Since the Deerhound club is based in England, is it an attempt to anglicise the breed?
Not trying to be controversial, but it seems a bit strange why they don't use the full name of the breed.

After reading Living with Deerhounds by Kaye Barret, it seems like she tries to play down the Scottish origins of the breed as well.

Imo it's entirely possible the breed descended from the hounds the Picts had.
Because the breed is docile now compared to the reputed ferocious nature of the dogs from the Picts, Celts,etc means nothing.
A dog breed's nature can be changed within a human lifetime.

The breeding study done on silver foxes in Russia is an example. They managed to breed totally docile foxes from wild, aggressive foxes within a short period.

Evolution in Action: The Silver Fox Experiment


Anyway, just my thoughts... :whistle:
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40163

I believe the club uses the term "Deerhounds" since the Deerhound was also kept by the aristocracy in England since medieval times! Also the Celts dogs consisted of both the Ancestors of both Wolfhounds and Deerhounds and they were trained to be dogs of war fetching the enemy from their horses.
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40165

Interesting, thought greyhounds were mainly used for hunting in medieval England rather than deerhounds.
Most of the images Ive seen at least.
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40168

Hi Scott,

For me is the Deerhound a Scottish hound.

The Deerhound was a breed for hunt the deers in the Highlands.
The origin of the breed is not unique (Celtic hound, wolf dog, mastiff and and ..)

A good book with many ancient lineage theories is "The Scottish Deerhound" (1892) of E.Weston Bell.
It give a reprint by AMAZON: www.amazon.com/The-Scotti...s/dp/B001RLY4JY

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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40170

Hi Joerg,

I agree with you it is a Scottish breed. That's why I'm curious the Deerhound Club don't use "Scottish".

Thanks for the link to Weston Bell's book, I've been meaning to buy it for a while.
He came from the same city as I do and had his kennels nearby. So I'm keen to read it.
Here's a picture of his family house...

photopolis.dundeecity.gov.uk/wc1116.htm
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40172

Hello again Scott,

mm ... maybe the name Deerhound Club is owed ​​only of the system of breeds.

There are only one breed with named Deerhound world wide , therefore no further suffixes are necessary for differentiation.

Otherwise is it with the Shepherds, there are e.g. Belgian Shepherd dog, German Shepherd dog and White Swiss Shepherd....

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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40173

saorsa wrote:
...
Thanks for the link to Weston Bell's book, I've been meaning to buy it for a while.
He came from the same city as I do and had his kennels nearby. So I'm keen to read it.
Here's a picture of his family house...

photopolis.dundeecity.gov.uk/wc1116.htm
Hi Scott,

Thanks for the interesting link.

Ciao Joerg and Yoki + Lucy
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40175

You are correct Joerg. There is only the one Deerhound therefore no further clarification is needed. There are not just 'Irish' wolfhounds, but many others throughout the world. Nobody tries to 'play down' the Scottish origin - why would they! As a point of interest, we have travelled widely throughout Scotland with our hounds for many years - at least 3 weeks a year - and can count on one hand the number of people who know what the breed is, which is a shame. Still, we are doing our best to do a good PR job. Everyone always comments what a gentle, well behaved pair of dogs they are :D
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40176

I'm not aware of any other breeds called Wolf hounds, at least not officially!
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40182

Robb wrote:
I'm not aware of any other breeds called Wolf hounds, at least not officially!
Yes Rob, you have right, is give officially one Wolfhound in the world, the Irish Wolfhound.

A inofficially name for the Borzoi is Russian Wolfhound.


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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40183

Since there are'nt other types of deerhounds then I can see why they don't use Scottish.
I thought it was maybe because the club and majority of show kennels were based in England especially when showing, etc was first introduced in the 1900's.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40197

Hi Scott,

Maybe in the following book to find additional informations.

"History of the Deerhound Club " of Pink, Annette
Link: www.abebooks.com/97809511...-095111610X/plp


Sorry, I have this book not in my little archive.

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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40198

Hello,

This information is not about UK but about Canada (CKC).

Source: erinrac.com/main/magsarti...id=71&item=1004

Citation: "1888 Canadian Kennel Club founded: Clumber 9th breed recognized (English Setter, Cocker, Saint, Deerhound, Smooth Fox, B and T Toy Terrier, Collie, Pointer, Clumber). " END



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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40200

You're right Joerg, the Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) lists the Deerhound (Scottish) whereas the American Kennel Club (AKC) refers to the Scottish Deerhound.
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Deerhound Club 4 years 1 month ago #40201

Thanks for the links Joerg.
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Deerhound Club 4 years 4 weeks ago #40212

Hi Scott,

I have found this article in the internet.

Link /source: www.dogorcat.eu/Dogs/Larg...the%20Deerhound

Citation:
"History of the Deerhound
The Deerhound, Greyhound, Scottish or sleeping rough, the dog is a very ancient, historic and very important in his country of origin. The past of this race is all tied to hunting and especially to hunt game of a certain size, such as deer and wild boar. Just because the deer, deer called in English, hence the name of this razza.Cane very fast, rough and tough, the Deerhound was the ideal hunting dog such as those wilds of the Scottish Highlands has always been so closely with man.The origins date back to the pre-Christian and the tribes of Celtic origin who arrived in Scotland between the fifth and second centuries BC, accompanied by large dogs from sleeping rough and shaggy. Dog is respected and loved by the Scots by the Picts that the Deerhound was represented by several artists from the Celtic, as evidenced by various sculptures and figurines dating from the second century BC, found near Lydney in Gloucestershire.The medieval period was certainly one of the most notoriety for this race, during which time it was very popular with hunters, especially those noble, to be master of the variety, the breed of the hound greater splendor. Even in 1016 the King Canut forbade those who were not noble to have a Deerhound, in order to protect the deer from the ferocity of these dogs. This prohibition clearly sought and made these impossible to find dogs that became invaluable.The interest in this race became increasingly also in other European countries such as France, that nation began importing several specimens from Scotland and Ireland. Over the centuries, however, the big game became increasingly rare in the Highlands . Around the eighteenth century, the forests that covered part of the land disappeared leaving for pastures and meadows to be allocated to breeding sheep.The Deerhound became increasingly rare in Scotland and in other countries, like France and England, took off on horseback hunting contributed significantly to the decline in the use of large levrieri.La breed was saved from death, however, thanks to the intervention of a noble, Lord Colonsay Duncan McNeil, who started from 1820 onwards and continued farming with passion and Deerhound method, bringing the race into a certain integrity, even if still limited in number. Famous people of that era, as the writer Sir Walter Scott and Queen Victoria, fully supported the work of Lord Colonsay at the forefront of supporting the revival of the breed.In 1891 was founded the first Scottish Deerhound Club and in 1892 was the first written breed standard. Finally, 1901 was the decisive year for the registration of the breed to Kennel Club Currently the breed is preserved in a small number in Scotland but enjoys the esteem and the national interest." END


The UK Deerhound club was founded 1886. Link: www.deerhound.co.uk
Might be a write error in the article?

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Deerhound Club 4 years 4 weeks ago #40215

Interesting article Joerg thanks. It must be an error, the date the club was founded.

Here's a link for you. It says the breed was once called the "scottish deerhound" as well. Why the change?

www.the-kennel-club.org.u...ay.aspx?id=1015

Cheers Scott
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Deerhound Club 4 years 4 weeks ago #40218

"Even in 1016 the King Canut forbade those who were not noble to have a Deerhound, in order to protect the deer from the ferocity of these dogs."

We hear that often, that Deerhounds were owned only by nobles, but I've not come across this reason before - that they were ferocious in hunting deer. Mind, it is true that Deerhounds are incredibly focussed in the hunt and work as a team/pack in bringing down their prey, so King Canut's ruling makes sense.

BTW Joerg my Mom saw a pack of wolves on their ranch this morning stalking deer, so they're back. I am going there in a couple of weeks and will take photos if the opportunity arises. I only hope they don't become a nusiance when the hundreds of cattle arrive, which will happen shortly.
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Deerhound Club 4 years 3 weeks ago #40227

Ironstone wrote:
...
BTW Joerg my Mom saw a pack of wolves on their ranch this morning stalking deer, so they're back. I am going there in a couple of weeks and will take photos if the opportunity arises. ...

Thanks Shelley,
In what part of Canada lives her mom?

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Deerhound Club 4 years 3 weeks ago #40228

Good morning Joerg - my parents are in southern Alberta, great ranching country in the foothills of the Canadian Rockies. Wild game regularly pass through their property but they hadn't seen wolves in awhile. This time my Mom saw four adults for sure, and between two and four little pups.

For any of you who didn't know, Joerg's favourite animal apart from the deerhound, is the wolf! :cheer:
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