Loughrey Sisters of Derry

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5 years 11 months ago #38276 by Richard
Richard replied the topic: Re: Loughrey Sisters of Derry
Robb, you wrote that you "have no doubt ... etc", however, certainties such as that are very hard to come by on the hunting field. It's akin to selling the bearskin before you kill the bear.
I have no wish to quote the defining literature again on the correct and appropriate type of deer coursing Deerhound. We've been through that.

No, I was interested in coming once again upon a remark such as that of Neil's concerning a perceived change in type in recent years.

But since you insist, with reference to your questions on age, prime, and length of working life of successful dogs, you will know from your literature that very little is said about that. We know that predominantly males were used, often as young as 12 months or less, that it was a hard and often lethal life. I suspect that, in hunting stags, it was not a long one as you would expect from an elite athlete in a dangerous sport. And these were working hounds not companion pets.
I cannot repeat it enough that the professional deer killer, for many centuries, right across Europe, was the greyhound. They coursed larger forest deer than the Highland deer, did it in leashes of three, often in series. Yes, they did it on kinder terrain. An essential element of the art of hunting game with sighthounds is to force the game to make a mistake. A brace of greyhounds can do that to the superior natural athlete, the red deer, quite easily. They will with any luck, by forcing it, cause it to stumble and fall. Particularly in the case of Deerhounds running on inclined and rough ground. They do not have to wrestle it to the ground and jaw it to death.
Some pro's and contra's to that argument can be found in the rather wonderful piece on coursing by Charles St John in Short Sketches from 1846 archive.org/details/short...esofw00stjoiala
Read the chapter on Deer Coursing, right to the last paragraph.
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5 years 11 months ago #38277 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: Loughrey Sisters of Derry

Richard wrote: crackadog and Joerg, "Longevity" is on its way.

Thank you Barb and Richard your article is very interestingly.

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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)

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5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #38278 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re: Loughrey Sisters of Derry
I know a Breeder (Occasional Only) who has had 3 dogs given CC's this year and she only has 4 Dogs! Her best dog is stunning and has Champ status and won Best in Show at the 2012 Deerhound Club Breed Show. She is certainly Athletic and not large and has a pedigree with many of the older lines in, a picture of her can be seen via this link:

www.deerhound.co.uk/BREED...breedshow12.htm

There's another pic of her here, she's the dog in the middle:

kilbournedeerhounds.com/I...c%20august.html

This was her critique from the Breed Show:

Adams’ Ardneish Pantalaimon. A most beautiful feminine bitch of great quality. One of the best heads of the day, very feminine. Perfectly balanced throughout. Dark eyes and small ears. Strong neck into well laid shoulders. Good deep brisket and spring of rib. Width across the hips was perfect giving strength to a very strong rear assembly. Crisp coat of correct length and texture. She moved with a flowing strong pace.

Rob B
Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Robb.
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5 years 11 months ago #38279 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: Loughrey Sisters of Derry
Hello,

Many old paintings with Deerhounds can you see on the web site of www.aghnadarragh-deerhound.com/art_top.htm .


Example/ Link: www.aghnadarragh-deerhoun...m/1350de580.jpg





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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)

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5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #38280 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: Loughrey Sisters of Derry

Richard wrote: ..Some pro's and contra's to that argument can be found in the rather wonderful piece on coursing by Charles St John in Short Sketches from 1846 archive.org/details/short...esofw00stjoiala
Read the chapter on Deer Coursing, right to the last paragraph....


Thanks for the interesting link Richard.
I have me saved the file.

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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)
Last Edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Joerg Yoki.

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5 years 11 months ago #38281 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re: Loughrey Sisters of Derry

Richard wrote: Robb, you wrote that you "have no doubt ... etc", however, certainties such as that are very hard to come by on the hunting field. It's akin to selling the bearskin before you kill the bear.
I have no wish to quote the defining literature again on the correct and appropriate type of deer coursing Deerhound. We've been through that.

No, I was interested in coming once again upon a remark such as that of Neil's concerning a perceived change in type in recent years.

But since you insist, with reference to your questions on age, prime, and length of working life of successful dogs, you will know from your literature that very little is said about that. We know that predominantly males were used, often as young as 12 months or less, that it was a hard and often lethal life. I suspect that, in hunting stags, it was not a long one as you would expect from an elite athlete in a dangerous sport. And these were working hounds not companion pets.
I cannot repeat it enough that the professional deer killer, for many centuries, right across Europe, was the greyhound. They coursed larger forest deer than the Highland deer, did it in leashes of three, often in series. Yes, they did it on kinder terrain. An essential element of the art of hunting game with sighthounds is to force the game to make a mistake. A brace of greyhounds can do that to the superior natural athlete, the red deer, quite easily. They will with any luck, by forcing it, cause it to stumble and fall. Particularly in the case of Deerhounds running on inclined and rough ground. They do not have to wrestle it to the ground and jaw it to death.
Some pro's and contra's to that argument can be found in the rather wonderful piece on coursing by Charles St John in Short Sketches from 1846 archive.org/details/short...esofw00stjoiala
Read the chapter on Deer Coursing, right to the last paragraph.


Thanks for the interesting article Richard.

It's not so much that there are no certainties but rather in this day and age we are limited by what we can say regarding dogs and hunting. I have heard of many Hounds of various sizes and types that have done the deed. I even know of a few Whippets and of course Wolf hounds who are still being used in the Republic of Ireland to this day.

I did not insist on a response to ages of Hounds but am grateful it caught your attention and that you provided a link to that interesting article. The reason I mentioned age is that a Deerhound doesn't fully mature until around the age of 4 years and if most of the dogs died in their first year then they would be smaller and of less stature. We would never have known what their final dimensions would have been. The more historical articles I read then the more "pros and cons" I find, as was stated. In reality I don't really think that we will know, beyond doubt, the full facts of hunting with hounds as much is shrouded in the mists of time and even many of the stories were no doubt written down following their telling around a fire drinking whiskey and there must be a certain extent of “Fishermans Tales” involved!

Concerning the present types of Hound then I think that the best we can do is to encourage Athletic Hounds that are neither too large nor too small and that conform to the best of the Breed standard. Environment is the shaper of form and the Hound of today finds itself in a totally different one for the large part. The best we can do is to try to emulate that environment in ways that are acceptable today!

Rob B
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