History Prints

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #38451 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Thanks Richard and Rob for your posts.

Another painting:

Link /soure: www.christies.com




Description:
Attributed to Richard Ansdell, R.A. (British, 1815-1885)
A Scottish deerhound and three dandy dinmonts by an open fire
oil on canvas, unframed
61 x 77½ in. (154.9 x 196.8 cm.)


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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)
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Last Edit: 5 years 9 months ago by Joerg Yoki.
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5 years 9 months ago #38452 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Is that your's Joerg or are you going to bid? Probably going for a tidy sum on Christies!

Rob B
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5 years 9 months ago #38453 by florent
florent replied the topic: Re: History Prints
I think it is Gourlay Steell 1819-1894, not Ansdell.

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #38454 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings

Robb wrote: Is that your's Joerg or are you going to bid? ...

No, no Rob,

The original costs ca. 37,000.00 USD


A reproduction print (27 X 20 inches) costs: 129.72 USD

Link: www.niceartgallery.com/Ri...-open-fire.html

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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)
Last Edit: 5 years 9 months ago by Joerg Yoki.
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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #38455 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints

florent wrote: I think it is Gourlay Steell 1819-1894, not Ansdell.


Hello Florent,

I'm not sure, I have the informations from here: www.christies.com/lotFind...bjectID=4729205



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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)
Last Edit: 5 years 9 months ago by Joerg Yoki.

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5 years 9 months ago #38473 by florent
florent replied the topic: Re: History Prints
Hello J&Y
I saw that deerhounds.blogspot.fr/20...hree-dandy.html
Bye
Florent

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5 years 9 months ago #38483 by Richard
Richard replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Rob, I note your comments on the coats of Deerhounds, but the importance of my remarks on mistaking the Aidi or Atlas mountain guardian dogs in the Haagen cast for 19th century Deerhounds, has nothing to do with coat.
It has to do with the fact that the sculpted dogs do not have the conformation of Deerhounds - which are by definition a greyhound type of dog.

What, by the way, are your historical sources on these supposedly two differently coated types of Deerhounds that you have mentioned before: Scottish Lowland Deerhound and Scottish Highland Deerhound?

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5 years 9 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #38484 by Robb
Robb replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Richard, my comments were intended to partly address the fact that most of the history prints show Deerhounds to be of shorter coat and more variety of colour. Should you strip the coat from today's dogs then there will still be many, but by no means all, that appear similar in type to many in the prints! At least that is my impression! Not all of today's dogs are disimilar to those of the past and in Scotland there are still many of the old lines continued albeit that they are not coursing Deer or winning shows but I hope that may change! I find it interesting how so many dogs now have the longer coat although of course coat is merely cosmetic!

I don't really study Deerhound history in a formal way, I purely like to browse through articles when I have time. I have read several writings of the Lowland and Highland Deerhound. One that I can remember is Captain Graham's writings about the Deerhound on the Irish Wolfhound site. He mentions the Lowland DH with a shorter smoother coat and the Highland dog with a longer and courser coat, he also says that the Highland Hound can have a short temper and be ferocious although not with it's owner. Also if you look back at show champions who have pictures as far back as 1879 then the coats slowly get longer over the decades!

A more important issue than merely length of coat may well lay here as if the coat differed as well as the temperament then it may imply that these dogs differed in some way genetically. The history of the Deerhound is shrouded im mystery and it is this that I am interested in. The original Irish Wolfhound which was almost extinct before Captain Graham rescued the breed was rumoured to be more like a Deerhound. I have also seen medieval paintings of what must have been Deerhounds on the lawns of palaces, these dogs were shown with Deer nearby and were very tall and slender looking like the dogs of today that are said to be too tall and not athletic, I would say that they were probably exagerated although other objects in the painting appeared reasonably in proportion. I saw a picture of that painting around 40 years ago and am trying to locate it again but so far without success.

Rob B
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5 years 9 months ago #38485 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Hello,

Sorry it is not a historical source, but the "Canadas Guide To Dogs" write:
Source: www.canadasguidetodogs.com/deerhound.htm
(Citation)
"By the middle of the 18th century, there were two distinct types of Deerhounds — the Highland and the Lowland — with the Highland being taller, stronger, and with a heavier coat than the Lowland. " END


Another source: www.deerhound.co.uk/breed...ard/history.htm
(Citation)
"Before the middle of the eighteenth century, there was considerable diversity in appearance, but by then there were two distinct strains, the Highland and the Lowland. The former was taller, stronger and with a heavier coat than the latter." END



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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy dh:) dh:)

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5 years 9 months ago #38487 by Richard
Richard replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Thank you Joerg and Rob.
I suspected as much. The following might be a fine distinction, but it is an important one.
Before the 1800's it's impossible to find a dog breed or type called a "Scottish Deerhound".
The 18th century references, such as those that Kay Barret makes, come from original sources such as Pennant, and Dr Johnson, and then indirectly from Richardson and Graham, which talk of the different greyhounds and large scent hounds (with pendulous ears) that were used to course or pack-hunt deer. And they were, or could be called "deer-hounds". They may well have contributed to the Deerhound as we know it. But they were not quite the same thing as the modern dog developed as a singular type, with a number of breed lines, called the Scottish Deerhound in the early to late 1800's, which was also known in it's early period as a "deer-hound", and was originally intended to course cold deer.
It's why we always make the distinction "deerhound" being any dog type used to hunt deer, and "Deerhound" being a particular breed.
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5 years 9 months ago #38539 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Thanks Richard.

Is the "Deerhound" from today a "deerhound"?


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Joerg and Yoki and Lucy dh:) dh:)
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4 years 10 months ago #40810 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Hello,

The Royal Dog of Scotland.






All the best
Joerg and Yoki + Lucy
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4 years 10 months ago #40815 by Brodie
Brodie replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings

Robb wrote: Richard, my comments

Rob, you say your comments "were intended to partly address the fact that most of the history prints show Deerhounds to be of shorter coat and more variety of colour. Should you strip the coat from today's dogs then there will still be many, but by no means all, that appear similar in type to many in the prints! At least that is my impression! "....The standard for the Derhound Coat is....
Shaggy, but not over coated. Woolly coat unacceptable. The correct coat is thick, close-lying, ragged; harsh or crisp to the touch. Hair on body, neck and quarters harsh and wiry about 8 cms
(3 ins) to 10 cms (4 ins) long; that on head, breast and belly much softer. A slight hairy fringe on inside of fore- and hind legs.
Colour
Dark blue-grey, darker and lighter greys or brindles and yellows, sandy-red or red fawns with black points. A white chest, white toes and a slight white tip to stern are permissible but the less white the better, since it is a self-coloured dog. A white blaze on head or white collar unacceptable.
It should be every breeders goal to try achieve this as standard throughout a litter along with the rest of the 'standard requirements'. However I think that there are dogs both in & out of the show ring with longer & softer coats !


Wigster n San x

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4 years 10 months ago #40881 by Richard
Richard replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
With all respect - It's been a while - so, what exactly is the point, or what exactly is the question of the last post?

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4 years 10 months ago #40882 by Richard
Richard replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
I would also like to add my congratulations to Joerg for taking over a forum which obviously caters to a very real need - and hence to Rob "Teratyke" for intiating it and running it so well for such a long period!
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4 years 10 months ago #40952 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Thank you Richard for your good wishes.

Sorry, I can not find the answer of John (Brodie) on your post
I have checked again today the e-mail copies of the posts from this day.

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Joerg
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4 years 10 months ago #40953 by Richard
Richard replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Thanks Joerg, I guess it must have beeen some sort of 'glitch'.
Best wishes,
Richard
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4 years 9 months ago #40980 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Hello,

The Burden of the Years by Andrew Scott Rankin
Date painted: 1921
Oil on canvas, 66.6 x 94 cm
Original / Collection: Perth & Kinross Council

Source/ Link: www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpa...9437/print/info





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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy
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4 years 9 months ago #41126 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Hello,

Four Dogs; a Collie from Tweedale, a Scots Deerhound, an Otter Terrier and a Scots Terrier
by William Shiels (1783-1857)
Oil on canvas, 122 x 159 cm
Original/ Collection: National Museums Scotland, National Museum of Rural Life

Source/ Link: www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpa...nd-an-ott183604




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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy
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4 years 6 months ago - 4 years 6 months ago #41730 by Joerg Yoki
Joerg Yoki replied the topic: Re: History Prints and Paintings
Hello,

Head of a Deerhound by Robert L. Alexander
Date painted: 1907
Oil on board, 34 x 25.5 cm
Original/ Collection: The National Trust for Scotland
Source/ Link: www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpa...eerhound-197160








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Joerg and Yoki + Lucy
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