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phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress

  • Dylan
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8 years 10 months ago #37564 by Dylan
I know bit of a mix the title..sorry..basically our Black lab female age 8 was suppose to get spayed after her last season..but she had a phantom pregnancy..we gve her hormones as directed by the vet..butnoticed she was still swollen and behaving funny..a few days ago thr big bot ( Torrum ) started continously sniffing at her and wining which has been getting worse and worse.We went to take the lab to the vet yesterday when we spoted her bleeding..the vet cancelled our app said she was in heat and that she could well go on to have another phantom pregnacny !! I am trying to get her spayed !! any advice of what to do or how this all works ?

Now I am concerned for Torrum he is really wining , trying to mount everyone and last night had to sleep with me..yes the bunked down together for teh night some grandson/grandda bonding...now I intend to take him to a friend who runs kennels who has a soft spot for him and who I know will totally look after.( would not put him to an ordinary kennel just this guy ) I recond her danger time is next Friday and I do not want ot take him away from home before I really need to ( miss the big guy ) however we are concerned how upset he is getting..he is wining and moaning and has not taken any dinner for 2 1/2 days now he has taken some mini gray bones and swipped 2 mini milky ways, but has not touched his biscuit food or meat ( cooked minice or stewing beef )and I am worried is this ok is this normal what should I do ..I do not want to get him over stressed and effect his health. Thanks guys any advice greatfully recieved.

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8 years 10 months ago #37565 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
I wonder why you would be advised to give hormomes for something s normal as a " phantom pregnancy" ? How often does the girl come into season? When you want her spayed, you should do it at about half point between the pregenancies, when hormone levels are lowest- usually that would be 3 mths after the begin of the season. Giving hormones can mess up a lot of things for them....
As for the boy,going off food when in love might be very normal - usually males do know when the " best days are " and will calm down once they are over, at least with sighthounds that is. There is not only "1 danger day"- there have been successful matings from 1 week into the heat to 3 weeks into the heat - esp. with a female that has been on hormones I'd be really careful.
Oh the jois of having intact dogs of both genders ......

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8 years 10 months ago #37566 by Dylan
hi we were waiting till 3 mths after her season to have her spayed when we noticed she was gaining wait and her teats had milk..the vet said phantom pregnacy and gave hormonal drops whcih began with pro according to wife it sounded some thing like progestron..they said to give her this for a week then she would be ok in 3 weeks ,but even after the drops she contiuned to think soft toys were her babies and still swollen..now it is 6 weeks on and we rang the vet at first she said she could be pregnant !! Or ccoming in to an early season due to the drops , she started to bleed yesterday and the is now saying she could go into another phantom pregancy.I wanted her spayed as it is not easy going with Torrum so upset and the vets were telling me at 8 years old for her health she should have been spayed.Normally she would have her season twice a year.
As for Torrum we have them separated ,but to be honest the girl has never accepted or liked him and she won't let him near her anytime.I just don't want him to be so destressed and will as I said take him away for a while I just don't want him gone longer then he has to be but at the same time I do not want to keep him here and destress him..how will I know if he is getting to destressed and what will I do if he continues not to eat ?

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8 years 10 months ago #37567 by Ironstone
Replied by Ironstone on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
Hello Dylan. Fear not, Torrum's obsessed behaviour is quite natural in this situation. He won't starve himself to death but he may end up looking a bit gaunt before your lab girl is through her season. The only solution is to keep them separate and so your plan to move Torrum to your friend's kennel is an excellent one. He'll be able to calm right down and will be much happier. Probably the sooner you can send him on his little holiday the better. Last year I had bitches in season from July through October :laugh: and none of my males starved themselves to death with desire :laugh:

Ironstone Deerhounds
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8 years 10 months ago #37568 by Dylan
Thanks Ironstone..oh they are a worry I don't like to see the big guy so upset..and I remember once before with another lab male we had the lady at the kennel we took him to said we had left the choice lab too long ( she was a vets assistant ) that it was not good for his heart so I just don't want to let the big guy get in the same place..its just hard to tell..sometimes he will lie and sleep but then he will start crying and moaning and licking everyone insight.I know my friend will be delighted to have him he is an ex police dog handler who has retrained in ..I cannot remember the exact name but the friendlt reward way by one of the top experts and he in the crufts good .. scheme but whats more I have seen him with Torrum hugging him and letting Torrum up on his knee..yes Torrum loves a good cuddle..so i know he will be looked after..I'll just miss him :blush: How are your crew ?

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8 years 10 months ago #37574 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
What about having him neutered? Might be anyways the easier solution- it is a much easier procedure for a boy. As for your female, if she came in heat that early again I would not use hormones again and have her spaied sooner after her heat , not wait 3mths again. I do use a lot of homoeopathy and other natural medicnes, have done so all 40+ years of my dogownership and am quite happy with it. Over time I found a handful of vets ( ok, only 3 nearer by..) around here who do, too. I find, it was worthwhile the effort of searching and " weeding". Good luck with your quest of finding one in your area( I live in BC...).

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8 years 10 months ago #37621 by Dylan
Well I would think of breeding from him so thats out for now..however ..anyone !!! he is not interested in her any more has stopped trying to mount us and she seems to have stopped bleeding ..which ment she bled for 2 days ..now her teats are swollen up as if there is milk again ..so has she finished her heat ..was it really short or will she start to bleed again..does her wee body even know what it is doing ? Cause I'm baffled as to what is going on and not sure if I should take her to the vet..just don't want to look silly if this is the normal for these kind of cases...does anyone have a clue as to what is happening ? Thanks

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8 years 10 months ago #37624 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
It sounds to me that the hormones mixed her body up quite a bit. I would try to find a different vet and go there , soon. I have no experience with things like this, but would worry a bot about pyometra developing and similar. She might just have to be spayed now.

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8 years 10 months ago #37626 by Dylan
yes I have thought a second opinion might be a very good idea I am very concerned for her ..she eems in an ok mood..but a few months before this all became apparent my daughter had me take her ( Nan ) to the vets as my daughter said there was something wrong with her hormones and they totally dimissed it..my daughter is one of those people that can tell you things that others have no sense of..spooky ! But it was fusrating for them to not even explore the possiblity they just went no nothing wrong..mmm yes did you ever think of checking Mrs Vet ..? I do hate that its your dog you know them and you take them to an expert who will not even listen !! Ok rant over ...climbing off my soap box and backing away .LOL

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8 years 10 months ago #37627 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
You know what, one of my best friends is a retired veterinarian and from her I learned to trust my instincts- she always sais an owner knows their animals best and , if a vet really does not want to listen, try and find a new one. She also always encourages me and others to stand up for our animals and not have procedures done we do not want, or leave our pets there when we strongly feel it is detrimental to their well being...also, to " shop around " for standard things like vaccinations- it is very interesting to ask around. I got, e.g quotes for the exact same thing, spay of a 4 year old deerhound including blood tests aso , ranging from $350 to $550...A vet should have a certain feeling about the " reasonability" of their clients and take thir observations/wishes into account. And, in the end we are the ones who own the animals and the ones who pay...I ended up with basically 3 vets , one " main" and 2 for "specialties' e.g. excellent in acupucture.chinese herbs/chiropractic/laser treatments aso- so, all know of each other and are willing to cooperate- great! I drive over 1 hour to my "main vet", but she is the only one who has a surgery and an xray machine for small animals....and, I really do like her. Luckily my girls do not need many visits normally (touch wood!!!).

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8 years 10 months ago #37632 by chook
I know the drops you mean and there are side affects with them,
they was given to my brother for his dog, as she kept producing milk and letting the kitten suckle
from her, they was never used - instead the kitten was kept away and all toys removed till the
phantom went, took a couple of weeks for that to happen.

you don't have to wait for the 3 months period - you can have her done before that time,
its just vets prefare to wait, as the blood supply will be lower, two of mine have suffered
from pyo's whilst in full season and they were spayed.

Jane

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8 years 9 months ago #37757 by Brollachan
Replied by Brollachan on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
Dylan what was the outcome? Sounds like either the ormones messed up her normal cycle or maybe she had something like a split season but I doubt the latter. Hope everything has settled down now. Maybe worth putting her on a course of antibiotics to reduce the risk of pyo. I seem to have to do this for Bo each time.

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8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #37758 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
Oh my, how would you determine wether to put her on antibiotics or not?
Last edit: 8 years 9 months ago by verenav.

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  • Dylan
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8 years 9 months ago #37760 by Dylan
Thanks guys for asking about Nancharrow..Well they put her on anti Bs 2 weeks ago and she finished them and her body was starting to look more "normal" when a few days ago my daughter said to me that she looked swollen again and that her teats where back up .So back to the vet and he says there is an infection ( not sure if it is the same one or a new one ) and gave stronger anti B and said he would definetly not consider spaying her until the end of July.
I am just a little concerned now about all these anti B on her stomach ?? Maybe I should consider proboitics after she finishes this course. ? At least she is very good with tablets you say her Nan and she just eats them ..so good, never had to train her she just walks with you off lead fantastic recall, as long as she has her tenis ball she is happy.She even takes it out walking with her. Although that is not something I think I would allow a dog to do again , but with out it she gets anxious.

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8 years 9 months ago #37763 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
I usually give probiotics with and after antibiotics- also, always give antibiotics with enough food, never on a empty stomach. Great that she is doing so well! If this is the vet who will spay her, they will have to set their owndate. Any chances for a 2nd opinion?

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8 years 9 months ago #37764 by Brollachan
Replied by Brollachan on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
Verena it is a bit of a long story but to cut it short...season before last, Terry found some blood clots in her urine, took her to a vet and she said "spay" her. Terry said that wasn't an option. Still don't know whether it was a UTI or something more sinister but she had AB's and was fine. Last season, Ipost season she went very flat, convinced (same) vet to bring her in at closing time to have a scan and she found free fluid in her uterus. It hadn't become infected but she had ABs again. I'm preferring to err on the side of caution rather than risk her getting full blown pyo.

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8 years 9 months ago #37765 by verenav
Replied by verenav on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
That is fully understandable- though, if she gets pyo, she might end up spayed anyways. Can't be easy to worry each time after the heat. So far Hermione is fine, the typical after season down time, but I never got the idea she was ill, never saw anything unusual with her urine either. She does get raspberry leave tea,during the heat and 2mths after through her "preganancy", an old uterus tonicum/cleanser/strengthener; and some evening primrose oil for the worst weeks and also, started it this time , pulsatilla for 1week. She does hunt/eat and play a wee bit at least, still not " my Hermione" during those weeks. And, she comes in heat excatly every 6mhts, poor girl...

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8 years 9 months ago #37766 by Brollachan
Replied by Brollachan on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
Bo is a 6 monther too :( The season before last, the vet said that if we are going to breed to do it. Then when we saw her last season she asked why we hadn't bred her...she was not long past 2yrs and we explained she was a tad young. But the next season we will do the deed. Bo always has mild phantoms and has incredible nesting frenzies. I have been warned to watch her with the pups as she is likely to dig them up all the time. I have visions of black torpedoes flying round the room :laugh:

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  • Dylan
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8 years 9 months ago #37767 by Dylan
Nan would drive you mad with nesting ,constantly walking around and around ...but it is the eatting everything that moves she is trying to eat even at the dinner tableshe is trying to steal off our plates..that is totally out of character for her..normally you could have left a plate of biscuits on a low surface and she would not have touched it ....

Brollachan..please tell Bo when taking aim with her torpedoes if she wants to send one to Ireland I'll catch it :laugh:

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8 years 9 months ago #37772 by Ironstone
Replied by Ironstone on topic Re: phantom pregnancy/in season/male stress
I'm sorry to hear of the troubles you've all had with your females recently. On a funnier note my girl Gruim is in season and her sister Maida has been pretending to be in season as well so as to partake of all the special privileges Gruim has been enjoying. They've been sleeping in their own cool and peaceful room, having meals brought to them, garden to themselves. After several days of this I finally figured out that Maida is not in season at all! :blink:
Shelley

Ironstone Deerhounds

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